Defying the odds when someone says you can't - feat. Katy Gillies & Hayley Peters

What happens when your old boss says you won't succeed without him? You show him you damn well can. That's what dynamite duo Hayley and Katy from Oh My Digital did. Listen to the way they carved their own successful futures with great tenacity.

Oh My Digital is your dog-obsessed, Netflix-bingeing marketing cheerleaders. They are here to help you love your digital marketing (and nail it!), backed by a cheer squad of besties.

And, for the month of April they will be going LIVE every Friday on their Instagram, giving away a major lesson they've learned over 5 years of business! You'll have a chance to pick their brains and get some nuggets of gold along the journey.

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W: ohmydigitalagency.com.au

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Produced by @davidjeasty
Music by @ramnac86 and @jompzz

Transcript

Tara Ladd: 0:01

Just a heads up if you've got little ears around this podcast contains some swearing. Hi, you're listening to the Word V, a straight shooter podcast that generates real conversations about the systemic issues surrounding working women, motherhood, business ownership, and society as a whole. I'm your host, Tara Ladd, owner of brand design agency, your one and only mother of two boys, and a champion of working women and a balanced society. Hi, I'm listening to the Word fi. And we have Katie and Haley from Oh, my digital. Hey, guys, how you going? Hi, I

Hayley Peters: 0:47

was so happy to be here. Thanks for having us.

Tara Ladd: 0:52

Okay, so for those who don't know you, why don't you guys let us know a little bit about yourselves?

Katy Gillies: 0:57

Yes. So we are a Brisbane based digital marketing agency. We're a team of four now, which is really exciting. And basically what we do is we help businesses become best friends for life with marketing, because we know from experience or questions industry for many years, and we know it can be really overwhelming and a bit draining. But we believe that it can also be really fun and obviously really rewarding as well. So we just try to help people. Yeah, make it fun and get results that they need to grow their business basically without the BS.

Tara Ladd: 1:30

Awesome. Awesome. And now, how did you both meet?

Hayley Peters: 1:36

Yeah, so I was managing a digital marketing agency in Brisbane. And at the time, we'd never had like interns. It was just me and another team member. And I'd noticed that there was sort of another component to the, to the overall company that had like a magazine and online magazine, I noticed that they had interns and I mentioned to one of the journalists, I was like, how did you go about getting your interns? And did you have any that you really love? Like, do you think they'd come back and in time for me? And, and he was like, yeah, actually, I do know, one that was actually studying marketing. And she was amazing. I think she'd actually worked out really well. And I was like, Oh, give me details. And then he gave me Katie's details. And I reached out to her and she was so keen. So she started interning with us, like one day a week and she was still at uni at the time. And then it was only probably our I think it was maybe three weeks in and I said to her I was like we'll pay you part time. And she started working part time for the company. And then within I think it was it was less than six months. She was full time. So it was as soon as she graduated uni we just locked her in and I was like y'all going nowhere.

Tara Ladd: 2:45

You're onto a good thing. You keep that good thing

Hayley Peters: 2:48

rotting away like her life like little she she was like locking itself into like a life contract with me. And this spot. Yeah.

Tara Ladd: 2:57

That's amazing. Like, I think that those genuine relationships because I had this a similar thing with Stacey. Stacey kind of came in as a junior designer. And then I took her under my wing and I stole her from the creative department. And then yeah, it kind of it's funny, isn't it, how you develop those, like genuine, authentic relationships in your workplace, like in from a place where you just probably wouldn't have ever thought.

Hayley Peters: 3:18

And I think too, like we kind of we laugh about it. Now. It's kind of one of those situations where you have to laugh or cry. We were kind of like trauma bonded experience through and I think because we were such like a tight knit group because of all of the stress that we were under. And because we found such a good like working relationship as well. It made starting a business together and working together in a business so easy whereas it might not have been that easy if we'd been friends first.

Tara Ladd: 3:46

100%

Unknown: 3:47

Yeah, like agree. Boundaries already. And we sort of knew what each other's stresses were so like, she knows what I'm like when I'm stressed and that's bestest as like leave me vague because I'm real moody. It was kind of like we kind of already knew what each other's triggers were and things. So yeah, it really helped us I think, like surviving as long as we have in business because we've known each other for so long.

Tara Ladd: 4:13

That's amazing. I think that that's such a key point, isn't it with the whole friendship verse work relationship. There's a very fine line with the friendship thing isn't there? Like you don't want to wrap that and I agree wholeheartedly with that boundaries thing. Like it's so true. Okay, so that's my next question. What made you go into business together?

Katy Gillies: 4:32

Yes. Well, it's funny because we always joke that we have like telepathy going on because we think the same thing at the same time. And I think this was like the first time that it ever happened. So I guess, like long story short, because obviously I've been working in this agency, but I'd had some people asking me to like freelance and things like that as well. So I had had in the back of my mind, like, oh, maybe I could have my own business and like do this kind of thing. But I thought I probably wouldn't be really popular at the agency. If I went did that. So I kind of kept it to myself. And I was like, oh, yeah, maybe one day, I'll do that. And I'll let Haley tell the story of like, you know how it all started. And we found out we were thinking the same thing at the same time. But yeah, we kind of just came together like that. And yeah, just like Haley said, because we had worked together before, we already knew what we were in for. And that's why it works. So well. I think if we had just been random friends, it would not have been such a good idea. But luckily, it's turned out really well. So

Tara Ladd: 5:28

good. And, um, let me ask this question. So I think the motivation to prove people wrong, can be like the epitome of your success. Right? So do you both feel? And I we haven't touched on this. But I know this already, that your old boss saying that you can't was one of your key internal drivers? Why don't you tell us about that? Actually.

Hayley Peters: 5:53

Absolutely. So basically, like there was a team of four of us. And we were just really mistreated. Like, we were just, they wouldn't listen to our advice. And we have all these inside jokes, because they were so old school that some examples would be that they used to use a ruler to measure the measurements of an ad on the screen.

Tara Ladd: 6:18

Cool. That's how pixels work. Apparently,

Hayley Peters: 6:22

he spent an hour arguing with me once that all of our branding was off, because the Facebook shape was different to the Instagram shape for the profile pictures, and that the Google Font was off. And like, whoa,

Tara Ladd: 6:35

wait, this guy ran your agency. Okay. Okay, as you were. So,

Hayley Peters: 6:42

yeah, and then me when I was trying to give him advice about the way things should be. So some of the things that I was sort of telling him was like, you know, for example, like we were telling him different ways that we should be formatting the website, they preferred that it should be super text heavy and read like a textbook. And I was telling him, nobody cares about all that sales job. And they really just want to know how you can help them. I told them that we shouldn't putting stuff buyers on there, give them a little bit of an idea that it's a human brand, that there are people that actually work behind the agency that didn't want to put any, like any sort of indication that there were people that haven't worked in the company. They listened to me. So basically, we had the website for about a year, we never got a single lead. And they also told me that Instagram was a waste of time. Oh, this sounds familiar.

Tara Ladd: 7:33

Wait, wait, what year are we talking here? Wow. Okay. That's not that no, no. Okay.

Hayley Peters: 7:43

Yeah. And so within, like, the first year of us having our website up, we started getting leads, like weekly. And I mean, ever since we kind of got our website the right way. And kind of the optimised probably we get like six, seven leads a week using using the actual tactics that we recommended to them, they would listen, which is just proof that they and their companies now boss, they don't exist anymore. So

Tara Ladd: 8:09

I think that that's just a classic can, how old were they?

Hayley Peters: 8:14

are one of them was about 55. And one of them was about 70, I think,

Tara Ladd: 8:18

okay, so like with no ageism in play here, I do get that whole. It's like that new mentality of like, you know, that shift in the age group. I think that's why millennials are so adaptable, right is because they've worked with the analogue, they've worked with the digital, they understand the 2.0, the old school. And I think, I guess, maybe what I would agree with is that sometimes, they just think that you're young, and it doesn't matter. Like it just doesn't matter how old you get, they're always gonna see you as that young employee that they hired so that they're never going to listen to any advice even if you grow and you can bring so much to the table. By I mean, isn't it just a kick out when you do well, when you when your advice works? I guess you kind of feel like you're like it's not like it you feel a bit imposter. Did you feel like that like as if our maybe my advice is wrong?

Hayley Peters: 9:09

Yeah, I mean, I feel like, I feel like we did feel a little bit like that. But at the same time, we used to spend a lot of time upskilling ourselves, we spend a lot of time on research, and the four of us would spend a lot of time strategizing together. So between all of us, our knowledge was really well shared. There wasn't like any competition between any of us, we were really open. And then that's kind of what led to us like starting our own business, because we were like, well screw these guys. They're not listening to us anyway. And they were doing some really dodgy things with the clients and we will we were just not happy with it. And it all went downhill when we started saying no, that we weren't going to do the things that they were asking us to do. So we were like, let's just go solder or an agency where we can do the things that we know will work and we just started keeping all the secret stuff sells and

Tara Ladd: 9:54

totally, you know, little upsells Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. And a lot of it really This is very similar circumstance to myself, though my boss was, he was pretty, pretty alright, the culture at our place was pretty good. You know, I respect him as a person, I guess it was a lot of that was the, I guess the age group was a big shift there. But like you There was still some things that. And I also think it's always like the youngest. And I was in that age group where so I kept saying social media, and they and then I remember having a circumstance where I was like, how long? It would have been 2017, no, 2000 2016 were having this conversation. And he was like, Oh, why don't we just get, hey, and he spoke to my creative director at the time was like, why don't we just get someone to dress up? Like, remember that big wizard that we had come out the front, and he was handing stuff out the front? And I'm like, I'm like, when was that? And he was like, 1992? And like, do you know, I was six years old? Like that? Doesn't that those tactics don't work anymore? Like this isn't? This isn't how it works. But in it doesn't. Don't you feel so frustrated when you know that something's gonna work. But people just fail to listen to what you have to say. Like, it's just not a collaborative environment. Right. It's just such a pushback. But oh, anyway, so I'm gonna ask this next question. I said, I like I said, I know I did. But I want to know, do you feel that the entrapment of the invisible glass ceiling being a woman? Did you feel that?

Katy Gillies: 11:28

Yeah, definitely. And I think to be fully transparent, I think, at the time weren't around the time I started the business, I was still only 22. So I was a long way off, like hitting my ceiling. But I was very, very conscious of it. And obviously, I've seen like, friends go through it, and people I know. And I'm even so conscious of it. Now, you know, like, obviously, being self employed can be really challenging at times. But I just always remind myself, like when you, you know, when you work for someone else, at the end of the day, there's only so far you can go and even like, in our industry, there's only so far you can go and then what's next after that, and particularly as a woman, then we have all these additional challenges on top. So yeah, definitely. And I'm thankful every day that I don't have to worry about that anymore. But isn't it

Tara Ladd: 12:15

funny how that's just in, like, ingrained in us to just be aware that that's the thing, like, yeah, I find that so frustrating. And I know that this is it's not anyone's fault. It's just, it's just a generational thing that's been ingrained into all of us. But like, just knowing and it always reminds me of that, do you remember that a instead ad when they give? I think they give the guys the little boys $10? And they give the little girls $5? Do you remember that ad? And then they were like, why the even the little boys like why did share and you get $5. And they were like, because that's just how it is. And I was just like, Oh my God, that's such a good ad like, and even then, and just looking at their faces. Like this is an I wonder if they came away from that. And we're like, is this? Like, for real? Because yeah, isn't it just such a you like, I'm gonna go and like in it's constantly showing that women are outperforming men and academically and then you get just that level? And then and you can it's no wonder that you get to a stage in your life, right? And you're like, do I do I have kids? Or do I delay that? And that was absolutely on my mind. And I'm not going to lie. I got to a stage where I was like it? Am I going to have kids? I'm not really sure. I mean, they were always in my mind. But it was I hit 28 I wasn't where I wanted to be. I started this business at 30. So obviously, I was fine. But like at the time, I was like, not where I want to be. I haven't worked on my ass off all these years to be here. Like I feel so I guess incomplete, like career wise. And I can understand now why women are waiting to have children or they're just taking it under, I guess taking control of their own ambition and just starting their own businesses. And I'm like, I'm just so here for that. And I think there's a I don't know about you guys, but I feel and I think you would agree that there is just a huge sense of community and the women supporting women thing now like that whole competitive thing is just gone now, right? Like you feel that

Hayley Peters: 14:16

this Instagram ad manager chat with like 20 You probably know most of them. 20 other women in Australia who all run Facebook ads and we've been in the chat for about two years now. We've never once had any bitchiness we've never had one had any form of like stealing each other's clients or competitiveness or it's just this really collaborative space where we all every day someone's like, I'm really stuck with this. Does anyone know how to fix it? Or someone's like, I've got this lead. I can't take them to some Does anyone else have space? Or does anyone else have any extra work right now? I could really do with that allayed my way. And it's just like this amazing space. We've never once had an issue and it's just this. It just really speaks to our generation. I think the fact that we don't see each other as competition because there's so much work to go around with each other's like friendships

Tara Ladd: 15:01

and really trying to send I love that. I just love it like it just I think that because there's nothing like a female friendship I think I mean you value your male friendships don't get me wrong I'm not saying that I'm just saying there is just a depth that you can get to with a female friendship and I think that that it's almost like it's been deliberately pitted pitting us against each other because they know the power of that. And we're seeing it right like you guys was talking about for like you feeling that uprising of of that real like women supporting women saying like working together to achieve the greater good. And I don't see it is a vicious thing. Like I know that men say to soccer women, like you were saying for women are like, you know, taking control. It's not we're just gonna we just have a voice now. And I don't think a lot of men like to like to hear those domineering voices. And it's it's making them think and it's reshaping the way societies working. And I think that it's changing, and most people don't like change. And I think that that change? Well, we'd like the change let's face. It's pushing forward. So this brings me to my next question for you guys. So according to the 2015, Australian women in business report by the abs, there was a 46% increase in the number of women business operators over the past two decades. Why do you think that that is?

Hayley Peters: 16:19

Yeah, so I personally believe it's like a lifestyle change. So like, typically, I say, typically, you know, women generally hold most of the responsibility in the household, that's generally how it is in terms of raising kids and looking after the day to day. So generally, they sort of need to take more time off work. And that can be really taxing, when you're in a corporate role, you're sort of seen, as you know, being a mother is weighed as equally as having a corporate position, it's not seen as viewed as important. So when you need to take time off for your kids, it's not really seen as valuable. So I tend to think that they, you know, they've just decided to go out and do it for themselves, because they get that little bit more flexibility to build their lifestyle around, you know, the, their own ambitions, their own goals, their own, you know, drivers, the things that they actually need to make their day to day work. And they don't have to worry about somebody else not viewing their day, as important as somebody else's who doesn't have kids or somebody else. Things that they need to get done. It's just kind of more of that freedom and flexibility to not have to live up to somebody else's standards. And

Tara Ladd: 17:26

yeah, I think that totally agree. Totally agree. And I even know, it's not funny, right? You know, that when you start a business, like the challenges of that are just like, tenfold, it's so hard to run a business, it is not easy. So when Haley says that do not think that it's just a walk in the park guys that don't run businesses.

Hayley Peters: 17:47

And they're like, you know, you got you to start a business for like, for the for the I think it's like the term like the about the lifestyle balance. And it's like, it's not really a lifestyle balance, it's a lifestyle shift,

Tara Ladd: 17:57

totally total shift,

Hayley Peters: 17:59

it's the ability to actually control more, that's the only real difference, to kind of control the narrative more than it controls.

Tara Ladd: 18:07

Yeah, I agree with that. And like, you know, I think if I didn't run my own business, I don't know what would have happened when Ari had his issues, right. I'll touch on that later. But like, that just would not have happened in advertising, like, there is no way in hell out that would have flown. Like, even just, I don't even think about it now like trying to get to and for now we know COVID has completely changed the game. And I'll come back to that. But like just leaving to go to the city having to be in the city by like eight o'clock, like it was going to take me like an hour and a half, two hour commute, like, either side of the day. That's like saving nearly 16 to 20 hours a week, just working from home and having the ability to do that, as you know, as a business owner. But now, which brings me like I'm going off script here. But you know, we're going to into post pandemic Whoa, now. And I think, I almost think and I know for for a fact that prior to the Panda, if my previous agency was still in business, that that would have been a huge thing to him, for us having to work from home that was just a big, like it hadn't happened before. And it was always an issue, even when we did try and bring that up. So I actually wonder within now that the businesses that have been forced to work remotely, whether they're going to change their tune, because I know that I know personally from just a few people that I've spoken to there's going to be huge resistance to people needing to come back to the office full time. So what's your take on that?

Hayley Peters: 19:35

We have the same resistance like they used to it we have power outages and they'd say that was just do paperwork and we're like we're a digital marketing agency. We don't even know how to print off. Paperwork.

Tara Ladd: 19:49

Don't have that. I don't even have a printer here.

Hayley Peters: 19:52

Yeah, like they would rather sit there in the office doing nothing, then go home and potentially do work like

Tara Ladd: 19:59

that. Do you think it's control? It's control, right? I think it's so hard to control.

Katy Gillies: 20:05

And there was zero trust what for us, like no trust at all. And it wouldn't matter what we did or how great we were as employees, it just was never going to be there. Like it was just the kind of environment that it was. It was just really toxic.

Tara Ladd: 20:20

It was really interesting, because we had this conversation with Sheree on empathetic leadership, which ties right into that. And I think that that, I think this is the thing right as more women are starting businesses, and this isn't to say that everyone is obviously like this, but most have that empathetic, compassionate approach to work. And I think that if more women not just owning their own businesses, but there are more women in leadership positions, it enables, I guess, a family dynamic across the board, and not just for women workers. I'm talking like some men workers. So I know that my husband, obviously now he's off with my son on 12 weeks paid parental leave, like they gave him that he works for Allianz. And they've given him that and he had a female boss, who I remember when I first had Ari, and she said to Ryan, I know you get your two weeks. But you know, when you got to 12 weeks later, but the initial first two weeks, why don't you take three and segue back into the second week, and then work a bit more into the third so that Tara doesn't feel like alone. And I was like, I've totally got this, I don't know what she's talking about. I feel like I should get down on my hands and knees and praise that woman because No, I did not have that. And I was I did not expect how I was going to feel post post baby more mentally than it was anything else mentally and emotionally. And I feel like having women in those roles, help us to, I guess have those conversations that otherwise wouldn't happen because men just aren't in those positions. And they won't be and I get that like it's this is the common conversation of why we need to listen as allies across the board for you know, people of colour and LGBTQI and all those types of minority communities is that we need to listen and work together to create those environments for people to work in. So I think that that's really interesting take on things. So this brings me to my next question for you guys. How do you think your business differs from the one that he left?

Katy Gillies: 22:20

Yeah, I think probably in every single way. But I think what it all comes back to there's a common thread between it all, it's just, I think it's how we treat people like and that goes for how we treat our clients, how we treat our team, but even how we treat our competitors as well, like Haley was saying before, you know, we work with them, not against them. So I think just respecting other people is a huge thing for us. Trusting every trusting other people, you know, with our team, like obviously, we all just work remote. Now anyway, we all work from home pretty much every day. So we trust them completely. And we know that they do a good job and they get their work done. And that's all we care about. So yeah, I think that's the biggest thing. And it's at the end of the day, I think that's what one of the big things that makes us successful as well is just that we do things differently. And we do it our own way. And it works. And you don't have to be an asshole to be successful.

Tara Ladd: 23:16

Exactly. And we kind of jumped across the question I was going to ask, but that back end is exactly what you just touched on about the outdated old model. And I think that now I think COVID has forced everyone into a new model. And I think that it's it's a really good thing, if there's anything to come out of it. It's that model, it's the newer version of it. And like you said, it's it, I'm the same I'm like, as long as you get the job done, I actually don't care, like you know, if you need to leave midday to go to an appointment, because let's face it, appointments are done between nine to five, you can't go any other time. It's not like you can rock up to a doctor's appointment 10pm Like it doesn't work. So if you can, if you can help your staff fit within the constraints of I guess, a work workplace Lifestyle Set, like you know, so that work in synergy, they're going to be happier employees, they're going to do more for you. And therefore you're going to have a better and healthier workplace culture. Like I think those are the incentives that I as a person, like, you know, when I was an employee wanted, it wasn't, I mean, cash, cash advances, and whatever, you know, your pay rises can only give you so much happiness for a certain amount of time and then just get used to that, right, you just get used to that pain. And then you're like, I'm still unhappy like that, wasn't it? And you can't put your finger on what it was. And I think that if we start making these small, incremental changes throughout our businesses, and I think small business has such a huge role to play here that we can we can change the way the future generations potentially, like lead their lives, right. 100% Yeah, mad. Okay. I love this conversation. And I know that we could probably talk all day, but I want to leave it there and because I know that you guys are busy. But lastly, what is your advice for women wanting to leave and start their own businesses?

Hayley Peters: 25:01

This question. So my advice would be joining networking groups like the founders team or going to events in your area. So for example, like the bell evolution do really good events in Brazil where you get to have really broad, honest conversations with people who are on like a similar frame of mind to people who are kind of in the same stage in business as well. So a lot of the early days, we started out going to a lot of networking events. And that's actually how we built most of our relationships. That was how we got most of our referrals. And that was absolutely gold for us. Because building that community was so key in actual in the business success, but also just their own mental health. Because having that community if you just got what you were going through, and knew who you were, and kind of got you inside and out was so crucial for us in all these years, having people who are in your corner, they can voice note and be like, I've had it today, this has been the worst. And then you know, you can just be really raw and honest and have these conversations. And they really get it was a really key sort of factor in how we've managed to kind of keep going for so long, having so many people out there that you know, have been able to support us and Yeah, cheers, cheers along and pick us up when we're not feeling the greatest, but also go out and have a few drinks with and celebrate all that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's what I kind of think is, is getting out there and meeting people and making friends in that sort of similar kind of area.

Tara Ladd: 26:23

I think it's important to have business friends, right, because you can't have these discussions with your friends that don't run a business and as much as they try and I guess get it or empathise or sympathise or whatever the right word is to, to what you're going through, you can't like, it's just not the same thing, like the pressures that you deal with the I guess like the other like, I was just trying to explain it to one of my other friends last week, I had to do conflict resolution this week, because we were met with a third party supplier that just didn't work. Like it just wasn't gonna work with us. And Stacy came out of the meeting not feeling very great. And to kind of jump in, you know, as a business owner, and, you know, flatten that, as it happened, it was not going to continue that. And that is another thing as the business owner, is to lead the culture that you want is to stick up for your staff, right? I don't think I I remember saying this specifically that I don't think my old boss had my back as much as he probably should have. And I felt really alone, when I did have some conflict with an ex, you know, client. And I find that, don't you think that that is also something that needs to be pushed forward to right, like you need to know that your leader is going to come and show up for you. I think that that is that is another thing with I guess females in leadership, right. And I do know that there are a lot of men that do that. But I think from that level of emotion, like you know that you'd rather someone be mentally and emotionally okay at work because mental health is so massive these days. So I think that's a that's a huge role. And like you said, like the networking, I think we all know COVID kind of shove that to the side but I mean, like look at us, we know each other from social media.

Hayley Peters: 27:59

Yeah, known each other since day one. I was scrolling back to our Instagram like try to find ideas to repurpose content and I could see us commenting on each other's posts from like 2017

Tara Ladd: 28:10

Go a little cuties go you good things. Go little rock star, we've got a road going on there. I just, you know, it's just it's the smallest things that I think. And you know, that's where I think women really, really blossom is social media because they are very, like social beam. So and it's even great for introverts, right? Because they don't need to be like they can do it from the comfort of their own homes. Like I know Sheree like shriek from TDP. She is like massive introvert but we get along like house on fire. And we met through socials as well. And neato let you guys know how we met through socials, like all of it. And it's funny, because then she had her thing in Queensland, and we all flew up, and then we all got to meet each other in real life. And it was there was like, no barrier, right? It was just like, we all knew each other because, and it's just so cool. Um, I think that's that's really great. But um, lastly, let's let's talk about your businesses for a minute. Now, I know that you guys have something coming up. Why don't you share it with us?

Hayley Peters: 29:12

Yes, so we've got in April, we're celebrating our fifth birthday. Every Friday, we're going live and we're sharing one lesson for each year that we've been in business. So we're going through all the nitty gritty, and going through all the lessons that we've learned the hard way so that other people don't have to

Tara Ladd: 29:34

think that that would be a good little shortcut if you can let people know about all those other things. Or you still have to learn from your failures. Right? But you know if you can avoid the catastrophic ones that other people make them go you good thing? Yeah, okay. Why don't you tell people where they can find you?

Hayley Peters: 29:51

Yeah, so did you want to you can do okay, yeah,

Katy Gillies: 29:55

you're right. It's on Instagram. Of course. I own my digital that's pretty much our handle every But Instagram is definitely where we hang out the most. Or our website is Oh my digital agency.com W.

Tara Ladd: 30:06

Amazing. Well, I just wanted to say a huge thank you for you both to you both for coming on today and having this chat. I mean, I value you both incredibly obviously that's why we're we're still chatting after all these years. And I think you both amazing. So thank you so much.

Hayley Peters: 30:24

Thank you so much for having us.

Tara Ladd: 30:27

Okay, awesome. Well, I'll chat to you guys soon. And all of you guys just need to head over to Oh My Digital because they are doing amazing things. They've just gone through a huge rebrand and it's just so much fun. It is very much them and it's just really, really cool. So yeah, okay, thanks for joining us today and we'll talk to you guys soon.

Katy Gillies: 30:47

Thanks, Tara. Bye

Tara Ladd: 30:53

If you enjoyed this episode, then don't forget to head over and rate and review. It helps to let other women know we're around. Also, don't forget to follow along on my Instagram page @iamtaraladd or hit up www.taraladd.com