This episode focuses on the importance of empathy as leaders within workplaces and organisations. It features Cherie Clonan, the proudly Autistic Founding Creative Director at The Digital Picnic.
Whilst profit's cool and everything [and her company is profitable], Cherie would say one of her bigger success measures revolves around disrupting this industry, and consistently leaning into that neurodivergent urge to make the world a better place for having neurodivergents circulating within it [and she prefers to do this - professionally speaking - by designing a humanistic and encouraging workplace with servant leadership at the heart of everything she does].
In doing all of this, Cherie has built a multi-million dollar company with empathy-led leadership at the heart and soul of everything it does … and a company that has gone on to be described by all as “the nicest place on the internet”.
You can find her at the below links:
IG: @thedigitalpicnic
LI: Cherie Clonan
W: thedigitalpicnic.com.au
Join the conversation over on my Instagram @iamtaraladd.
Check out my business Instagram @youroneandonly_au
Connect on Linkedin tarajoyladd
Visit the website (new one coming soon) - don't forget to sign up to the email list.
Produced by @davidjeasty
Music by @ramnac86 and @jompzz
This episode focuses on the importance of empathy as leaders within workplaces and organisations. It features Cherie Clonan, the proudly Autistic Founding Creative Director at The Digital Picnic.
Whilst profit's cool and everything [and her company is profitable], Cherie would say one of her bigger success measures revolves around disrupting this industry, and consistently leaning into that neurodivergent urge to make the world a better place for having neurodivergents circulating within it [and she prefers to do this - professionally speaking - by designing a humanistic and encouraging workplace with servant leadership at the heart of everything she does].
In doing all of this, Cherie has built a multi-million dollar company with empathy-led leadership at the heart and soul of everything it does … and a company that has gone on to be described by all as “the nicest place on the internet”.
You can find her at the below links:
IG: @thedigitalpicnic
LI: Cherie Clonan
W: thedigitalpicnic.com.au
Join the conversation over on my Instagram @iamtaraladd.
Check out my business Instagram @youroneandonly_au
Connect on Linkedin tarajoyladd
Visit the website (new one coming soon) - don't forget to sign up to the email list.
Produced by @davidjeasty
Music by @ramnac86 and @jompzz
This is a content warning to let you know that this episode contains conversations around domestic violence and pregnancy. If you do not wish to listen to these conversations, then skip to 45 minutes. In other news, if you have little ears in the car, know that there is some swearing in this episode, and to turn it down Hi, you're listening to the Word V, a straight shooter podcast that generates real conversations about the systemic issues surrounding working women, motherhood, business ownership, and society as a whole. I'm your host, Star lead owner of brand design agency, your one and only mother of two boys, and a champion of working women and a balanced society. Hi, I'm Tara, and you're listening to the Word v. And we have a special guest today, Sharif learning from the digital picnic tree, why don't you introduce yourself?
Cherie Clonan:Hi there. So yeah, I'm Cherie from the digital picnic, and really happy to be here today talking to a topic that I obviously love and live. But I guess just a little bit about me, I'm really proud, artistic, creative director at the Digital picnic, and were eight years old this year. And we just do this nice little thing where we split sort of 50% of our time, you know, teaching people how to improve their digital marketing efforts. And then the other 50% actually managing, you know, those same services on behalf of our clients. So, yeah, we're just, you know, I would say probably maybe the million business that describes themselves as being Practice Lead, but we really are just a purpose led, you know, digital marketing agency, and I'm really proud of the work that we do out there.
Tara Ladd:Yeah, I think anyone that knows who you are, would know that you're very purpose led, and anyone that doesn't know who she is, or the digital picnic, I think you definitely need to go and check them out. The reason she's on here is because we are talking about the topic of why we need more empathetic leadership. And if there is anyone that I know, that can actually walk the walk and talk the talk at Sheree on this matter. Not only how are we great business friends, but I find her quite inspiring. As a business leader, she shakes things up, I think that she puts her money where her mouth is. And you know, it's not a case of doing it for promotion. I know of many things that she's done, where she doesn't want any PR for it. And I think that that speaks volumes for the person that she is. So I'm going to go back to script. And let's get these questions up. So from your point of view, Sheree, what is empathetic leadership?
Cherie Clonan:Yeah, I think, you know, it's funny that was obviously saw these questions beforehand. And I was just like, it seems like such a simple question. And yet our own Prime Minister is dropping a million dollars per annum on a, you know, empathy consultant. So it must be more, maybe it's more difficult, or maybe it's not so much of a soft skill that people think it is, you know, so I think it's just that, you know, the ability to understand others and be able to relate to them and feel be able to feel their feelings and appreciate their thoughts and not just always, obviously, consider yourself, you know, first. But I think I just hear questions like that. And I just, you know, it's hard for me to answer because, for me, I just can't imagine living my life in any other way than just being the deeply empathetic human being that I am like, I know, empath is overused on tik tok now, and probably everyone identifies as an empath on you know, tick tock, if you're on that side of the FIFA, but I've been living this kind of life, you know, honestly, since I was aware of my own feelings and other people's feelings, it's the only way I've ever been, you know, I just feel things deeply and I relate to people so intensely and just, yeah, I honestly just always have their thoughts, feelings, life experiences, just ways of being, you know, at the forefront of my mind when I'm talking with them or employing them becoming friends with them, you know, just marrying them. raising them like it's just yeah, every every single different touch point in my life is better because of the way I live my life in an empathy led ways. So I guess Yeah. You know, what is empathetic leadership? I guess. Yeah, just, it's it's just that ability to be able to understand someone else other than you.
Tara Ladd:I wholeheartedly agree with that. And yeah, I think that and obviously, we all know the purpose of this conversation. Well, the conversation of the podcast is really just bringing women back up into that leadership position. And I feel and although this isn't saying that men can't be empathetic, because we know that they can, but I feel that it is a it is a trait that most women have. And I think that having more women in leadership is obviously going to bring that empathetic viewpoint into leadership. And I feel that that is where a lot of the disconnect can happen. I also feel that society for men in Defence for men, I think society has, I guess, trained them into thinking that they shouldn't show their feelings. So when you do have men in leadership positions, I feel that it is an empathetic lead, because they, I guess, they've been told that they shouldn't think like that, or they shouldn't put in, you know, feelings at the forefront of the way that they conduct business. And I think we're all unlearning. And we're all trying to, I guess, change the way we lead our organisations and our businesses. And I think that, I think that what you're doing is amazing. And I think that you're leading by example. And I think most people are seeing it work. And it's great that you've got such an influence for people to see that. And, guys, if you're listening to this, this isn't my way of blowing smoke up. sharees asked, we're actually really good mates. So I think that what I'm saying is actually genuine and authentic. And you'll you'll probably hear that as we progress through the questions. And I'm, I guess we've already kind of touched on it. But you know, why do you think leading with empathy is important.
Cherie Clonan:I just, I, you can even present the stats, like their I hate stats, even out there, why organisations will perform better when there might be a more empathetic leader, the you know, at the centre of it, and I've been that person before the digital picnic, you know, existed, I interviewed for a role where I would be leading a team of 70 people, so I was not directly reporting. So that's just a recipe for a breakdown, really, but, you know, definitely leading a team of 70. And it was one of the biggest roles, you know, I was, I was, you know, putting myself ahead for. And, you know, yeah, I know, for a fact that if I was appointed into that role, it would be a really different style of leadership to what that organisation was ever used to. And I was just so ready to bring it. And I was five weeks pregnant at the time when I was interviewing, which I didn't tell them about, because nobody's business, you know. And, of course, that was on my mind when I was interviewing. In fact, they actually illegally asked if I was planning to fall pregnant. So that's the kind of just just so you can have an understanding of the kind of organisation that I was, you know, about to walk into? And I just said, No. And, you know, and then I do, I got the role, and when all in just the person that I am, lived authentically, to just who I am as a person, and what that might look like as a leader within an organisation. And before I left for maternity leave, I had won four leadership awards that had never been presented to anyone in that organisation before. Employee engagement was at its all time highest, you know, and, you know, I, I attribute it to that empathetic leadership, but I'm now really understanding that it was servant leadership. And, you know, it got to the point where it was, you know, towards the end of my, you know, just before I was about to have my son, and they did pull me aside and apologise for that question that they asked in the interview, because they said, Yeah, it was great, actually. And they said, I don't think we've ever had a stronger leader, you know, in this organisation before, you've brought things that are so different. They you describe them as just things simple and let's not overthink it. It's just being human and treating people like human and celebrating, you know, human and humanity and just yet people, it's not hard, it's actually not difficult. And yet they've never had that before within their senior leadership team.
Unknown:Crazy.
Cherie Clonan:It was It was wild, you know? And so I guess I think a lot about that example and it's you know, that's why we need it because people feel seen celebrated heard, understood, you know, you get more buy in they're committed the loyalty spikes up like I could name all the different words in a dictionary as to why you'd want to see more empathetic leadership play out within your organization's but i could i because I've had access there behind the scenes, I can also tell you that financially things significantly improve, just if nothing else matters to anyone, you know, if it if it is, you know, profit over people, well, he numbers are going to increase, you know, you know, and that's what happened within that organisation. And so, now I get to live it firsthand and through the digital picnic, and I know for a fact my team would describe me as a deeply empathetic leader. You know, it's probably sometimes maybe too much. Yeah. But I know I need a whole and probably a Snickers bar. But yeah, so and I'm I'm on I'm, you know, living firsthand what it's like to lead with empathy. I've turned this business around since I became you know, sole director financially, I could, if anyone wants to see the spreadsheets off, flip and share them online, but it is a really different business like completely different. And that doesn't matter. For me, money isn't honestly even top five. For me, it's just people and impact and, you know, that alone has it's, it's been transformational, you know, I'm seeing it. And I'm building leadership teams who have the same sort of principles at the core of how they want to do their leadership life. And it's just a flippin wonderful thing to say.
Tara Ladd:And what I really liked most about what you just said, then was the fact that they apologised for what they asked you. And I think that that's, that's just it, isn't it, it's, you can't, you can't just, I guess, hate on someone or an organisation for acting a certain way, that's just been, I guess, accustomed, like they're accustomed to do I mean, I think that if if they've been, if what you're saying and what you're doing, and by you showcasing the difference, they've then gone Oh, hang on a second, what we were doing and what we were saying was wrong, let's change the way we speak, then I think that that's so important. It's even something that my my friends, and some people will know, Amy from BusinessLine, called me out on the other day was to stop using, I guess, to just be aware of my language in regards to say, male and female, and to be focusing on women and men a bit more. And I've, you know, did a little bit of research into why why that is. And I think I can have someone that's a little bit more experienced talk about that later. But yeah, it's just, you're not a bad person for doing something that you've always been taught to do. And I think that, you know, if we all just kind of look at what we're doing now and figure out how we can kind of change the way we do things, then I think that, you know, that's all it is. Right? It's just, it's just small steps into to making better workplaces. And, yeah, I agree. I mean, I think we've kind of jumped over a lot of the things that I was going to ask you about all this stuff anyway. But I'm going to hit you up with this question. Yeah. Speaking violating of exempt from by example, can you share what you did recently with the TTP safehouse. And the impact that it had?
Cherie Clonan:So yeah, our TDP secret department, which is now absolutely not a secret. But you know, it was a sacred thing for quite a long time. And it dates back actually, it's the one year anniversary today, as I'm talking amazing. I know. I find 12 more months on that leaks. She's incredible. But one year ago today, we we had to sign a lease at a particular zone, because our son was leaving a school that he used to be at and our daughter, and the school was a horror show. Like it just literally if you want to take them almost every single box within the Disability Discrimination Act and what not to do to the children within your school setting. Well, congratulations to that former school because they absolutely nailed it. And so yeah, that was not a great experience. And it just I'm ashamed to admit that it took me too long to figure out five years too long. I should have dipped from that school setting. I reckon the second year into our son having begun that school, the the warning signs were there. And they were like really deep crimson, red, red flags, you know that I just wanted to believe that wasn't the case. You know, at that time, it wasn't as bad as it became. But it became a lot worse. And it actually it reached the point where it was physically unsafe for our son to attend school, he was physically assaulted three times one of those times, he was rushed to hospital, he had emergency surgery, he nearly lost an organ in his body. It was the worst honestly, time I've ever had as a parent, you know, and we left that setting. But unfortunately, and I'm sure anyone in the Australian setting and probably beyond if you listening, you know that the really crappy thing about our educational systems is the zoning requirements, especially for neurodivergent children black, it means that you're kind of screwed. Because wherever you're located is where you basically have to attend school. If you want to break out of that you're going to need a bucketload of money to get into the Melbourne school setting and privilege speaking again, isn't it? Yeah, really, you know, and so, we didn't have that, you know, and so what we had instead was an ability to look at price tags on Melbourne schools and say, well, we could rent an apartment in XYZ location for a year to serve out the minimum time required and and move there and be in this better zone. And that's what we did. And we picked a school that won this huge inclusive schools grant from the Australian Government. So we knew that there are at least a safer option in terms of celebrating Nero to this, you know, children and neurodivergent children, we moved, we moved into, you know, this little apartment, and I hated it. I'm not an apartment kind of gal, especially because few kids it was a to better, you know, which is fine shot I've lived in much smaller as you know as a kid, but wasn't that it was just yet quite sensory overwhelming for me as an autistic, you know, mother, but I was like, yeah, it doesn't matter as long as our kid is safe now he thrived in the new school setting and our daughters killing it as well. But thankfully, thanks to deeply empathetic leadership, the school leadership team said you don't have to stay out at the minimum time, you can move out sooner, you know, because I knew we were suffering in that we were needing to heal from the trauma of the bullying in the form of school. And so they said, Go back to your home, you live right near Creek, you've got a beautiful Labrador, you've got fresh air, and so on. So they let us go back home, which was flippin amazing. And then the problem there is that we've got an empty apartment, you know. And so I gave it to a not for profit organisation, and said, you know, who was serving victims of domestic violence, and I knew for a fact that the, one of the, you know, things that will reduce fatality, the very most is a safe place to escape to, you know, and so that was this apartment, and it's got three security doors, a full time security guard, you know, it's like, a DV Haven, you know, by the way, it's literally just set up like, just structurally like, just, you know, it literally how it's set up, is perfect, you know, and so we gave it to that particular organisation, and it's become the home to three different people during the time that we've had it, and the third person is still in it now. And she's going to remain there for a year, because we shared it online, finally, with the consent of the social worker, and I'm going to say the victim, I'm going to say, the thriver, survivor and thriver. And, you know, they said, share, absolutely, we blocked out anything that was identifying it went viral, it's been seen now by I think just under 5 million different people across different platforms that we've shared that particular piece of content on. And off the back of that global companies saw it, especially on LinkedIn, and subsequently donated 91 apartments, to the same not for profit that we collaborated with, and I'm still blown away. Yeah, I just can't believe that we triggered something like that. And it was really especially healing for my son to think that everything he suffered through physically and mentally culminated in a safe haven for someone who I believe might not have been around today had she not been able to escape to this particular apartment. So it was really quite healing for your son in and of itself to just think that he played the smallest role in creating an opportunity like that. So yeah, it's quite a story. Empathy is right at the heart of it, you know, just being able to have an awareness of the needs of others and, you know, leaning into those needs and saying, I have this thing that can help you,
Tara Ladd:I love everything about this story, I always would love to speak to you about it. 24/7 I think that what what's most important about that is how how he felt, you know, I that just goes to show not only do you lead with empathy, but you're you laid with empathy within your household, which obviously has rippled through to your children, and the fact that, you know, he suffered something, you know, huge, and he still felt good for doing something for someone else. I just think that that's just amazing. And you know, that also, I'm going to follow that on with, I was reading an article and ink, and it said, a comprehensive study that was published in the journey, Journal of Applied Psychology found that empathetic interventions could dramatically increase productivity in a wide range of environments. In one aspect, one aspect of the study had lifeguards read stories about how their work helps others to increase their perception of social impact and social work. And the study found that those who read those stories had a noteworthy increase in Job dedication and helping behaviour. Do you think that this falls into the same line of thinking with your safehouse with those bigger companies?
Cherie Clonan:Yeah. Absolutely. Like, it's, if people can see it, they'll do it. You know, and that's the beauty of social media. Like I know that social media gets a really bad rap and often I'm on the receiving end of it, and it's just like, can we not always focus on all of the negativity because there's a lot of positivity out there as well. And, you know, yeah, I just think, for me, it was a really big thing to share that piece of content because I live in constant fear of virtue signalling, you know, I do also minimise, like, actions like I can't, I still can't really link that that was such a big thing to my brain just can't get there. I still remember that social worker reaching out in a form that I was, you know, within, and she said, we've got this person, this is the situation, can anyone look after her dog? That was that was the call out, the dog needs to be cared for. And I wrote to this person, this social worker, and I said, I can't look after your dog. But I've got an apartment. And she was like, Yeah, I was, I was still thinking, I'm sorry, I found you at conch after your dog, you know? Just autistic things, you know. But so, you know, it just we held off on sharing it for so long. And I should have shared it sooner because it's that see do thing. And so it rolls into a platform as perfect as LinkedIn is in this, you know, in this from this perspective, that absolutely right? People saw that piece of content, and they're no, the change makers. They're the ones who get to make literally the choices associated with that change. And they're the ones who've walked into potentially Monday morning whips and said, we've got 50 empty apartments due to the pandemic, let's offer them up to this not for profit, you know, and so that's exactly what they did. They were sitting empty. No executives were travelling around Australia, literally at all empty apartments. And now, safe havens for families, families of six, you know, families of four individuals, all genders, male and female, non binary, you know, just, it's incredible. Like, I just, yeah, I really do believe in that, you know, what you've just posed there, like, it's the importance of sharing so that people can see, so that they might be inspired to do hunting. 100, I think you're a divergent for it can lay lay the charge here, which is why differently, you know, just like, shake it off, let's do this.
Tara Ladd:It's funny, because I think that the reason you don't feel like you did such a big thing is because it seems so natural to you. I think that in the end, and I think that, you know, you're like, but I would do that anyway, like, I think that that's that's the thing, right? Like, it's just how you think outside the box. And that's why we need such diversity in our workplaces as well. I mean, if you're gonna lead by empathy, just, you know, saying that someone can't work with you. Because like, you mean, I've grown up, most people know that I've got ADHD, it's quite common. As we were discussing, prior to this call, I've been doing nothing but looking at rails all day, because my brain just can't think, but it's productive. Exactly. It's productive. And then I'll have days where I'll power through and do double the workload, but it's, um, I think that you know, it's thinking outside what what the realm of normal is these days and being empathetic to that as well. And, and I think they say go do good thing is, I mean, that's why we've got such huge big, I guess, charitable brands these days, like you, like thank you, for instance, you know, people will buy thank you because they feel that they're doing good because Thank you commit to something from I guess from a brand level. And it's the same with you'll see a lot of a lot of brands doing that these days that cause marketing is very, very much at the forefront of everything that we're doing people donate proceeds and profits to off off the back of things that they do. And you know, we raised over $10,000, working with the dog mom in the bushfire appeal. Like, I think people just feel that if they can contribute in, you know, she made T shirts, and we do design like but we still managed to come together to raise money. I think that it doesn't matter who you are, it's just a matter of how can you use your ability to do something and put it to good use. And I think that that's kind of that kind of thing. And then yet everyone else kind of goes well, I'll just you know, you did the good you did the work will buy it and will contribute to that good thing. And I think that that's that's how charity works. Right. And but I what I love most about that is your ability to you know, you just did it, you just did it. And I that's what I was saying to like we had this discussion prior to I think you actually sharing it everywhere. But it was groups and I was like you need to post it everywhere. Like that's just something that people need to know that you did. And because of that exact reason, because of the ripple effect. And you know, you'll have these haters that jump on and say virtue signalling but who gives a shit if you're actually just generated 99 steak houses or whatever it was like, You know what I mean? Like I don't shut up I can you box what have you done? Like, yeah, exactly.
Cherie Clonan:It was like everything that I was scared of. And I hadn't even admitting that I do get scared sometimes. Like, I'm actually pretty fearless person and I believe, you know, pretty large and unapologetically so so it was really bizarre to me that I was scared that it's just because I've worked in online for so long and I I have absolutely you know, I'm not going to ever make it out of this industry live without being hated, but with the kind of you know, loud voice that I have like you can't be loud and and get away with not being hated as totally Hey, bring it you know, and so I've got to that point there definitely. But I think I was just Yes, get of looking like the really genuinely wholesome, good, simple, well intended neurodivergent urge that I have to give back would be perceived as anything other than what it was, which was just that neurodivergent urge to always give back always look after those around me. I'm not saying I'm perfect. I can be an absolute turd, you know, but I do I think I'm just I nail the that thing. It's just how I am. It's just how I'm wired. You know, and I didn't want anyone to steal away from the genuinely good, wholesome, authentic, sincere reasons for why I did what I did. Yeah. Yeah, selfishly, it absolutely played a huge role in my family's healing, like, for the reasons I just told you before? I didn't even I didn't even think about that. But it did. And that was just a stunning, you know, bonus tip, you know, to come off the back of it. So yeah, what was I scared of will Yeah, sorry to swear, like, literally fuck it, you know, because nothing that I could have ever anticipated being scared of came close to the impact that we made by sharing that piece of content. And the ripple effects are huge. And ongoing,
Tara Ladd:isn't it like you just got you just got to do the things that you're passionate about. And something that I think that that overwhelming sense to say good, or do go to try and make some change, which is the whole point of this exact podcast, is to lend voices to those that don't have them and to kind of let other people know have different conversations that are happening that they may be agreeing to, and providing platforms. And I mean, we all know that you've got a platform of influence. So I think that that is in itself, a really good thing, you're using it for good use, and you're not using it just to promote, enhance, sell. And I think we're, we're so past that and everyone knows with economic trends that we are so past the Prophet led business, we are, in fact, we're, we're well into the purpose led business, you know, it's a bit now it's like the doing, like, we've got to do something, it's, we all need change. And it's this small business. And I know that there'll be a few people listening to this saying, Oh, but I don't want my business to be political. But you know what, he gives a shit. I think that there are so many things that we need to align ourselves with. And it's totally up to your discretion to share things that you feel, you know, align with what it is that you do, like, for instance, there's certain things that I won't comment on. Because I can't come from a place of, you know, something that I familiar familiarise myself with. So I will speak about the topic, but I will bring someone on that can talk about that topic if they've been in that situation. But you bet your bottom dollar, if I bring up a topic, I have got an arsenal of education and stats under my belt that is going to come back at each gloated. So let's go, especially regarding the gender pay gap and things like that. But, you know, I think when we're talking about empathetic leadership, coming off the back of COVID is like, this is the time for people to really shine in this aspect. And, you know, what, we're seeing it all now it's the great resignation, you know, people are just knowing that they can have more power in the way that they work. We know that flexibility works. And we've seen that you've been the whole, the whole world was forced into flexibility. And well, not flexibility, but working from home and that remote solution. And we all know and you and I both can agree to this is that, that provides women an opportunity to really excel
Cherie Clonan:and living it firsthand. I'm literally watching the rise and rise of powerhouse females within my organisation be able to continue their rise because of flexibility. And it shouldn't be as difficult as some particular organisations, you know, make it to be so. Yeah, I know exactly what he's saying. And I, yeah, I've been asked so many times, what do you what are your thoughts on the great resignation? And like, I'm concerned, you know, like, for us personally, at TDP, we've been doing probably so many of the things that I guess employees have wanted for a long time just because of that, you know, the introduction to today's podcast, like just being able to see they're human and show up to it and celebrate it and accommodate it and you know, all of those things. And as a result, I I am really proud to say that their particular people within my leadership team who probably never thought that what's happening to them in their careers was possible for them and there's one person in particular who comes from a lower socio economic, you know, background who I don't think she and I know I can say this, you know, I don't think she imagined the kind of success that she's currently achieving, you know, the digital picnic for ourselves. She never probably saw herself represented in the maybe people are under I'm not sure I don't know, in particular, you know, that particular part of our story, but I think it's really important to Do exactly what you've just said before, so that they can just continue to go on that rise and rise so that they can paint a new narrative, you know? And yeah, I just, I always want to play a role in that. I really do. I can't, I've lost count of, I think three, maybe four women who have announced their pregnancies. And then we said, so happy for you. And as you promoted, you know, Jeff always seems to happen at the, the exact time of that pregnancy announcement, not because I'm just being like, let's keep showing the community how to do this. It's just that they were literally deserving of the promotion and right at that time, so baby and stomach or not, you know, let's, let's, let's keep,
Tara Ladd:do I have a reason for that? Do you reckon I mean, this is this, this is giving guys a little bit of an insight, women just bust their asses off, right. And in most cases, women will plan their pregnancies. So I think in my case, and I can't speak for everyone, but I know that in my case, I felt pregnant at a time that I felt I was stable in my career, that I felt that I could reenter at a position that, you know, I didn't feel that it was going to impact my positioning. I felt financially stable. And I put it down to the fact and I, I've raised this prior that, you know, that women will have children later purely because they need to kind of set up, you know, set themselves up because they know that at that age, they're going to need to tap out. And I think that that's something that men just won't ever have to deal with. And so I think that maybe when they do get that promotion, they're just they've just worked their asses off. And they're kind of at that point where they're like, You know what, I'm going good. It's time to let's time a time to try and have a baby, and it just might just sync really well with it, you know, with the accolades.
Cherie Clonan:Yeah, it is. You're right, that's that actually is exactly what it is. I can't describe it. But I'm like, why is it that every time this incredible human announces their pregnancy, I'm like, we're we're a week away from providing us I like information, my friend. Yeah, love it. And I think it's important for other people within our workplace to continue to see that play out the way that it does in the digital picnic land, because it will never not play out that way for Yep, I agree with you. It's the reasons that you've actually said it must be, you know, it certainly has to play a role. Like, if it's not the whole reason, it's a massive role in in that right. And I just get, I can't even describe the pride when I'm like, congratulations on, you know, creating life like that is obviously an incredible feeling. That's not, you know, something that everyone gets to experience. And for those, you know, my full compassion, honestly, for those that do, like, you know, one, congratulations on having created bless and, and by the way, you promote it. So just keep that rise and rise going on.
Tara Ladd:Yeah, I love it. And I think the more that people see that they've and you know what, it's almost like, it gives them that incentive to do better, right up until the end of this. I mean, I've lived it I've I've one of the one of the main reasons that inspired me to want to start my own business, was watching some of the most powerhouse women that I've seen leave to have a baby. And I just would, you know, people would come in, in the time that they were on that leave, and I'd be like, Oh, wait till they come back, wait till they come back, like, you know, and then they come back. And if even if nothing was specifically said or done, it's the actions and the way people act that that speak volumes. And I think, to me, it was watching one specifically, and she's if she's listening, she'll know exactly who it is. She'll know, she'll know, it's about her. I watched her leaf. I watched her come back. And I was just like, what, what the fuck just happened? Like, it's like, she was just thrown back into some admin role. And, you know, I just was like, Are you joking? Right now, like, one out one year ago, she was like, running this joint. And then now it's just like, and I mean, you know, she did work her way back into that, that leadership role, but I just felt like we've had these conversations, you know, on in private, but it's just like, why is that normal? A guy would go off and come back and just be fine but and even act like our sorry, Scott got leave to you know, she's got to go to a kids or kids are sick. And it's like, if your husband's in a trade or your partner's in a trade, it's like a nurse, even whatever it is, like male, female, women, men, whatever, like, you know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's important that, that whoever is available, has to go and get that child and 99% of the time it's the woman and it's, it's just that I think that that stigma and I think this is where empathetic leadership needs to come into play. Because if you understand because if you're a parent from a place of leaving that experience, you will understand and empathise. But if you don't leave it right, you're not gonna, and this is why we need parental leave, right? And you know, all that type of stuff
Cherie Clonan:you do, and you need empathetic leaders like, you know, I'm just thinking recently, and I think I can also say that this is a safe share, you know, but one of our senior leaders has just had like, literally such a run as a working parent, like, it's almost been like one thing after another, honestly. And they're just genuine things that pop out for working parents. And I always just feel sad to think that she's scared to write and she's not that, you know, like that, there might even be a moment of hesitation. And every time tarla I've just, I'm so proud of the human being that I am like, she has never been met with anything but an overflowing level of compassion, empathy, accommodation, even in the one thing after another, it's just been like, there's been times where I thought, I wish there was a secret camera recording this conversation, so that we can play this somewhere to show people how the flip to do to do it, honestly. Because every time I have those conversations, I walk away, and I look, honestly, I'm probably the typical neurodivergent that beats themselves up too much and thinks that I'm never gonna, you know, I have moments I'm like, I'm not enough. I'm not enough. But I can honestly passionately say in those moments, especially for her in the last, you know, kind of six months. I'm incredible. I would love honestly, to have me as like, I'm just like,
Tara Ladd:far away, because you are, you're creating the business that you've always wanted to work for, I think, right?
Cherie Clonan:It's absolutely that like, I just think, if that was me, I didn't have that experience, honestly. And, you know, when I had to ask for things that come up for working parents, it was I was so shamed, like ashamed for needing really basic, you know, things that most working parents need, and she and anyone in my organisation will never encounter that for as long as I'm honestly at the helm, you know, because I wouldn't, I wouldn't let it fly like I just, I couldn't let it fly. So yeah, I just I reflect on a lot of these conversations. And I often tell my business coach, I love me, you know, I just love the way that I literally have every one of those conversations I wish they were secretly recorded, because my children would be so proud of the way that I employ human beings love it, you know, and show up for them. Yeah,
Tara Ladd:there's a book there for you, mate. Not even joking, I reckon so many people would buy it because you lead by example. It's, it's, I think that sometimes it's the smallest things. And I've said this, many times, people don't necessarily need a pay rise. They don't. It's not about the money. It's about how you make them feel work is such a huge part of our lives. I mean, we're seeing our work colleagues and dealing with, you know, those guys More than we're dealing, sometimes with our family. And I think that it has to be an environment where they can thrive in and I mean, like I've said before, you will always run into problematic people. And, and that's just, that's just it, but as long as you're leading as best as you can, I think that that just justifies what you do. Right? And, yeah, one of the things, I guess I'm coming off the back of that. The biggest thing for me is women leaving and then taking, because we aren't in a position to pay parental leave yet. That is something that's on my agenda, I know that you guys have a very good parental leave policy. Because it did take time. And that's the thing, it's just about doing this small, incremental things. And for me, it was just a matter of paying and for those who don't know, Stacy's my colleague, she has been since almost DDOT. Paying Stacey, her superannuation, when she went on, on that leave and knowing that she'll get at least financially compensated from the government for her everyday living, and then I could contribute to her long term financial investment. And I think that that, obviously, is the discussion that we're trying to have with getting the government to pay that. Because really, it's a conversation that needs to be had. And it's another thing you know, about providing little incentives and it's not like I've read something so so great the other day on LinkedIn, and it was like culture is not a foosball table and a bit like a baffle of beards. You've just got to do more than that. And you've got to you've got to lead with with you know, with intention. It's like if someone has to have a day off work, don't like I remember that. Thank God for the pandemic. There are a lot of things that have kind of come out of off the back of this right but do you remember going to work like I remember in an agency going to work sick feeling Like, Oh shit, I can't call in sick. I've got a sniffily nose, but I can't call in sick now it's like stay home. But before it was that you had to go like rain, hail or shine. And it was like, I'm so glad that they've knocked that on its head. But yeah, it's those types of things. It's just acknowledging someone, like, to me, providing hours. And like I've said in the last one, it's, you know, you can't provide the hours for every single industry. But if you can give them the flexibility to work those hours, just some people just work better at night. If the job has no, you know, like, if you can get them to do that timeframe, let them because you will just get so much more out of them. If they're more productive in a nighttime space. Let them do it like, so. That's what I'm all for. It's just getting the best out of the person and providing that workplace environment for them to just thrive in and feel safe. And I don't know, some like worth it like you because you can. I know, for me sometimes, like I'm analytical in the morning, I know that I'm creative in the afternoon. So I'm blocked, I don't do any meetings in the afternoon, because I just am like, off with the fairies. Like, I'm just like playing around doodle and drawing, like coming up with ideas. So I just don't book anything in the afternoon. So it pains me when someone wants a four o'clock meeting or three o'clock meeting, I'm like, I'm not going to be here. Like I'm spaced out. So if you can provide that environment for your and like for yourself and provide it for your employees.
Cherie Clonan:Yeah. And I seem like it's, you know, a business coach does this incredible, you know, she highlights that point of differentiation, where the is the importance of being responsive, not reactive, just responsive, you know, and even just the difference between those two words like I've I've always, I think one of my leadership strengths is the fact that I'm responsive leader, you know, and I'm not reactive, I can't I, I've got a slow processing speed, thanks to all my autism, you know, so I'll never be reactive, even if I wanted to be, you know, that I'm very responsive, you know, so I can, yeah, I can respond really quick, you know, and I think these days, in a still pandemic, that hopefully, moving into post pandemic left sooner rather than later, you know, we're all going to need really empathetic responsive leaders, not reactive leaders, but deeply empathic, responsive leadership, you know, so, yeah, it's just, it's, again, just that thing that makes your employees feel, I don't know, celebrated, like I got tagged on LinkedIn yesterday, I was so surprised by one of my team members, and she's just recently had a surgery. And we've got, obviously a document that has everyone's emergency contacts. And so I contacted her fiance, and I was like, Hi, Daniel. You know, my name is Sheree. I employ a beautiful fiancee. And I was just wondering if you could let me know what Ward she's on. You know, because I've had a couple surgeries. I know how it feels to wake up from surgery. And it's a pretty vulnerable feeling, you know? And, yeah, so it's so simple. Like, if anyone's not doing this, or like, go home, you know, but so of course, I woke up, there were flowers, chocolates, and a fruit box or something. And then the next day, we got some, like a hamper full of these beautiful meals, I give them to every everyone, especially working parents, but they're called the dinner ladies. And just like soups, and there was like a butter chicken qinhuai or whatever, like, you know, and did that and just had a couple of, you know, just nice little things in it. So she tagged me on LinkedIn. And she was just like, you she was blown away. And I was blown away that she was blown away by something so effing simple, totally. Like, we got your flowers, chocolates and fruit, which is just a stock standard hospital delivery. And then we got email so that you didn't have to cook and your partner didn't have to, and he could just love on you and help you recover better, you know. And just to be tagged in something like that on LinkedIn, I just thought, wow, wow, just is this, who's not doing this.
Tara Ladd:I know, I feel the same International Women's Day, I sent out all the girls a little present. And I planned it. And I know that Sam's in looking at all my accounts, so I had to quickly reconcile it and get it all sorted with Amy before she saw it so that they would be surprised because you want them to be surprised. And I just thought it was a nice touch. Because, you know, we haven't been able to spend time together and it was just it had little things in it. Like there was similar but not the same. So had little things in it that each of them would have liked. And I think that that's, that's something I guess that I do is I'd like to really point out the the little things that people like about themselves, it's like getting to know the person so you can individualise something not just be like, you know, and I specifically put it down to the people that I built my house with and I'd love to to drop their name, but I don't want to because I don't want to give them any credit because I do that I had such a good experience. And yeah, you know, and everyone got towels like it like my friend five years prior got towels the same colour the same time, like how she is to give me a bottle of wine and the glass like, Do you know what I mean? Like it wasn't even good. And I'm like it just, yeah, three quarters of a million dollars with your company like, yeah, it's just, you know, I just think it's things like that touch points, like all those things internally, but one of the things that I really liked with what I did, and I didn't realise it was that big of a deal, until I did it. And that was when I put my job out job ad out. I've done it twice. Yeah, I've done it for two separate jobs. And I made sure that I customised every single reply with so in. Let me start off by saying in the job interview form, I asked them questions, because I think that asking the standard things about the job description doesn't give you enough about the person and I'm not necessarily hiring just for the job. I'm hiring for the person that's going to feel that job. So I asked things like dog or cat, or what's your favourite brand? Or what's your favourite song and just random shit. So they're probably filling out this form going? What is this? It's like a Buzzfeed quiz, like so. But it gives me so much about the person like, Are you a cat person, or a dog person can tell you a lot about a person, let me assure you, but like, tell me like the most random thing you've ever done. And someone says something like, oh, I sent I sent a really like tight deadline to a client by 5pm. I'm like, That's shit, mate. I don't care about that. Someone told me that they were that they were arrested in a Cuban jail and had to escape to a plane by the time like, it was just I was like, this is riveting shit. Like, I love this person on my team. It was just like, she can work under pressure, you know, deadlines. Like it was just so good. And I'm just like, get toasts and you know, those are the things that resonate with. With you, it's gonna give a shit about your deadline, just do it was just so cool to hear that story. And obviously, I messaged her, I thought it was so cool. But what I did was, you know, in their apply, you know, asked about their favourite foods. And so I made sure that the things that they they'd answered with were wrapped up in that reply about why I couldn't hire them and that maybe they weren't the right fit for the job at the time. And, and then I gave them the advice about, you know, something that they could do to improve their folio. But that's just something I never got, you know, when I'd send out I'd go to all the effort to apply for this friggin job. And because they're easy, and you'd have to rework your portfolio from a creative point of view to have to rework your portfolio for the job. And then you just get no reply or just some blanket response that been unsuccessful. It's like a fucking busted my ass to reply to you and you. And you know, that's, that's your sponsor didn't even want to work for your company. So I think even little things like that, for people that don't even work for your organisation since and I had a reply, and I shit you not from every single person that I said no to.
Cherie Clonan:I'm not surprised, and they're gonna, and I've lived this experience personally, those people will be your future employees, I've lived this now, three, maybe even four different times. It's the way you empathetically rejects. Like, there's a really kind way to reject a candidate will make them fall in love with your organisation even more. And that's happened to TTP three to four times now amazing. for that exact reason. And, you know, I just Yeah, again, you know, simple things like, this is the stuff that it's such a shame that our prime minister needs a million dollars a million votes to teach him how to just literally be human, you know? Yeah. Yeah, but what do you do Jenny? Teaches Jenny,
Tara Ladd:actually speaking about that. What do you what are your thoughts on leadership we've seen over the past few years, right up until this moment with world leaders.
Cherie Clonan:Yeah. Speaking it, you know, I guess speaking to our own backyard, I think people can suss out in authentic leaders now better than they ever have before. So Scott flying out to Lismore and faking photos to look like a really different leader in crisis than he really is.
Unknown:He that he didn't take the media this time.
Cherie Clonan:Oh, really. I didn't know that. I heard that he basically skipped from a lot of, you know, sessions where it was meant to be speaking to the community and basically put like Defence personnel there instead. Which is just astonishingly disappointing. And yeah, I just, I think the the inauthenticity from that man, just it's making a lot of people's skin crawl, you know. And then on the flip side, you know, you've got, you know, really different experiences elsewhere, you know, so Jacinda like, we know that yeah, you know, she just humanises that experiences so beautifully where even if her daughter I think Neve I think it is interrupted a live stream that she was doing and, and she was just like storytelling What is it like just like a like a parent says Sorry, darling, you know, and if I just, that's just so stunning, humanises her more than she already does on the daily anyway. And then of course, we've got, you know, our Ukrainian president who is just as authentic as they seemingly come if he doesn't turn out to be genuinely genuinely authentic. Well, he had me fooled
Tara Ladd:he, like he's put Ukraine on the map, like a map like, for good things, and then the whole country once and not the country, but the whole, the whole country wants to fight for him like not just for themselves, but for I want to fight. I want to fight for him. I'm there. I mean, I'll be three words that the Russians
Cherie Clonan:I want, I'll fly from Palestine. Everyone, of course, I'm autistic, you know, but, but I guess what it's made me really realise is that you can have all of the on paper qualifications, you can have the master's degree, but if you can't muster the degree, well, what good are you You know, and so, stop fire stop employing people who are perfect on paper to lead countries hire the comedian's. Yeah. You know what I mean, everyday people who've got hearts. So he's got this obvious passion for his country, he had a ticket out when it was in crisis. And he knows he's got every target on his back right now. But he's family. And he's families, you know, and so I just keep coming back to that point, like, let's stop focusing on folks who have the master's degree, and let's start celebrating people who can master every single requirement within that degree, sometimes without the piece of paper, you know, to show for it. And I've seen that on a much smaller scale play out at the Digital picnic with, you know, just so many talented humans who are real hybrid within my team, and those who have the piece of paper and those without, I don't honestly, really think that anyone's better than anyone else. I think we're all just differently skilled and abled, you know, and so I'm really glad that we don't look for the piece of paper every single time you have it, he won't bring it that lack were interested in whether you've escaped from a Cuban jail to be perfectly honest. Interesting to me,
Tara Ladd:like, see, and even then she's brought up in a podcast from you know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's things like that. And like, I mean, the relatability, with what you just said, then is that with a leader like Ukraine, and he's countryman, just so fiercely loyal to him, it's the same in workplace organisation like, and I can give an example as to, you know, I mean, most people know about Ari and his transplant. And again, I'll talk about this later. But during that time of absolute health, for me, my team came to the potty, like, they just were there for me. And, you know, and even after the fact, it's not just during its this is going to be an ongoing thing for us in periodic stages, you know, and last year, we were in hospital, you know, over a three month period, it was like six times, so it was just constantly, you know, and, you know, four or five days at a time, and I can't be mentally present in my business in those times, and no one you would think, like, it was it was just happening because I was still talking to my team, and I'd get on at night. And I, you know, and I think that that, I guess coming from that place for me, just lets me know that you know, she happens to everyone and you can't control that. So, if this is how I feel like how are they feeling in a situation, Stacy's got Endo, you would know all about that, you know, she's been in hospital multiple times things out of her control. She's sitting at the hospital with a laptop and I'm like to shut it. Who cares? Like, you know, work can get done whenever it gets done. By is
Cherie Clonan:totally committed because of that, you know, because of the way you do leave, like, yeah, it's just, I've seen it in the 3000 different lockdowns that, you know, Melbourne endured, like my team just kept showing up and opening up those laptops. And I was like, close, you can close the laptop one, but they were just like, it just reminded me of that scene, that final scene in Finding Nemo where like, all the fish are, and yeah. And we were like that we would just let him know when I'm going down to a virus, you know, and there were really scary moments for me financially. Yeah. And, you know, I just can't believe I've built something so strong, it's ultimately going to go down to a virus you know, but thanks to my team and the way they swum like, we all did in that final scene and funny name I like we just flippin overturned every bite and, you know, break free from every pandemic rope that was kind of like placed around us and I kept thinking, What did I do to deserve these people? But I realised that I do deserve them because they similarly probably deserve me too. Yeah, everything that I've ever tried to do for the team prior to, you know, some of those massive pandemic hits came back to me tenfold. And I'm forever grateful. I can never not look at them now without, you know, basically becoming like the holidays emoji because I'm just so grateful that they did what they did during that time, not needing to not on paper needing to but
Tara Ladd:wow, yeah, that's, that's, that's empathy at the heart right there. And I think that's the thing like who retain staff who lost staff who retain staff, I think that is a huge thing. workplace culture, we all know, is just a massive subject at the moment. And I think people just don't really understand what they mean by workplace culture. It's like no one needs friggin acidic. Was it the fake grace in your bloody offices with, you know, your pool tables and whatever, like, it's got to do with everything about the community that you can bring in. Like, as they say, it's not a family, it's a workplace. But the workplace is a secondary family, in a sense that you know, that you do come together as a team, and you do, you do fight for one another. And I think that that's the difference between who survived and thrived during COVID his team, and obviously, I'm going to step in there. Like, there are things that were taken out of people's controls, even if they didn't have a thriving team. I'm fully aware of that.
Unknown:Me. Yeah, yeah. So
Tara Ladd:I do know that I was also in a very good industry. During that time, even though we went through some pretty questionable moments. But um, yeah, you know, it's, it's, I think that having that team come to the party, and just work together is everything to do with the culture and the way that you lead? And I think that, you know, you should credit yourself to that. Absolutely. Yeah. So all right, let's go down here. We've already skipped over the pandemic, you know,
Cherie Clonan:went right into that. It's just can we keep skipping over and done? Yes. But yeah, got
Tara Ladd:it. Done. It done it. Okay. So he's a good, he's a really good one, actually. And I think this one probably applies more to men. And it's, we know that empathy has an element of emotion involved. So what do you say to those who believe you shouldn't mix emotions with work?
Cherie Clonan:I would feel sorry for them. Honestly, to be that skin, and to lack that much courage to be literally scared of, you know, human emotion and showing up at work, you know, I I just say, bring it bring the emotion. As long as it's not toxic, you know, let's not bring like, narcissistic or toxic corporate. So I keep that at the door. I hope I honestly never bring anything remotely like that to anything I do. Typically. I don't think I do. But I have brought emotion. I have cried in front of my team probably twice, you know. I cried when we had to make someone redundant during the pandemic, who broke me I loved that woman, you know, I love love, not loved past tense, love that woman still send as many referrals across to her as I possibly can. Making her redundant was so terrible for me. I hated it, you know? So I've definitely cried in front of my team. And I've brought emotion. And have I weakened TDP or myself as a leader in any way, shape, or form? No, it's actually been quite the opposite, you know, that they can see a leader who's courageous enough to show emotion in in a mostly constructive way. You know, in fact, I would say almost always constructive. I don't think I really ever dip into anything that's seriously toxic. I say that. My business coach and my confidence coach. Yeah. That, you know, yeah, I just, I really feel sorry for anyone, regardless of gender, who's been trained to think that human emotion is something that makes you look weak. Because it's just not the case. You know, and I think that our, our team is as strong as it is because of that psychologically safe workplace that you build off the back of being courageous enough to share your own emotion, celebrate others emotions, you know. And yeah, I just feel sorry for the workplaces who don't have those particular features going on, like some of my proudest moments have been when a particular employee might have stood up in a chair, you know, just the chair Exactly. Like the one I'm sitting on just, you know, stands up at a desk and says, Hi, everyone. My name is I suffer from depression and anxiety. This is how it presents. This is how you can help me at work when I'm presenting like X, Y and Zed. This is what I might benefit from you doing for me, you know, and just confidently listed out the very basic and human accommodations that she requires to function as someone who suffers from depression and anxiety at the Digital picnic and ever since we've known exactly how to continue to celebrate that powerhouse human being and she's she's flippin incredible like she's been promoted since she's you know, she I look at her and I just think you're so courageous and strong and incredible and diverse and bringing different lived experiences to this workplace and just to stand up in a chair like that. That's the very definition of courage. Right? Yeah, yeah. That took you know, that just took so much courage. And I just sat there about to pass out from just the happiness I felt from someone being able to do something like that and have conversations and normalise conversations like that in my workplace. Like, I just thought I can retire now. Because this is about as good as it gets for me as a as a servant leader, and someone who fosters a psychologically safe workplace. Yeah,
Tara Ladd:that's great. I think and obviously, everyone knows that already know you. So we rebranded TDP and we've done a sharees personal brand. But the thing that I think stands out to me was zero about me book is not equal that the about anybody that is something amazing. I mean, if you would like to share that with people, I think that that is something that is so valid, and I even questioned some of the things that I did within my organisation purely just creating yours. So why don't you share people are actually,
Cherie Clonan:um, yes, so funny that you bring that up, because it's so many things like this, where I'm like, Oh, my God, I forget all these
Unknown:things, right? So little. Yes.
Cherie Clonan:So it's an About Me book, because you know, what, if you're going to carve out 37 ish hours per week, in a workplace per week, we should know about each other, right? Like, and the thing is, whoever sits in that chair, whether it's a Work From Home share, or in the office, you know, whoever's sitting in that chair, they're a person. And there's a whole host of just reasons why they're sitting in that chair on that particular day. And for as many days as I'm, you know, on an improved ledge to have anyone sit in a Tdap share, you know, and I think about the child that they used to be like, and so we we have this about me book, where it's like, show us a photo of you as a child versus you as an adult. So we have these two pictures side by side, because it's a reminder, and I hope, a beautiful reminder of the whole self that you bring to work who you were, when you were little, versus who you are now and everything that led to you carving out this career in digital marketing that you are today. But it's also like a bit of a, like a playbook or like rules of play. So it's just like, these are the things that I need within my workplace to thrive the very best, these are my boundary requests, this, these are the some of the things that might trigger me, you know, some things that people get confused about me or X, Y, and Zed, you know, what it actually means is X, Y and Zed. So you know, I'll get I don't want to share any examples from my, you know, internal team, but for mine, it will say things like, to be perfectly honest, if you're sitting quietly at your desk, and just like typing away with a nothingness look on your face, I will always assume because I'm positive, I'm just, I'm just a positive kind of human being that you're happy. So I will never know otherwise, if you don't come up and have those conversations with me. So if you're sitting typing away at a, at a desperate you deep down feeling really resentful and pissed off, I'm never gonna know, sorry, mate, but I just won't, I'm not a mind reader. And so I'm going to require you to, you know, come up to me and say, I'm a little bit pissed because x, y, and Zed, you know, and so I just have little things like that about me. You know, I'm an avert kind of work personality, especially in a remote climate. So I'm like, you know, I'm pretty intense. Like, I'm just like, hi, you know, and I'm just trying to keep the relationships going. i Hello, good morning. How was sunshine emoji, and you get a sunshine emoji, and I'm just trying so hard, you know, just because of how I am even on a disk scale. You know, that's who I am just like constantly trying to connect people and to some I might be to f in March, but I can't change who I am. Because TDP honestly wouldn't be what it is today. If it didn't. If if it was any different than Sheree Klein and at the helm, you know, if the worst thing I've ever going to do to my employees is piss them off, because I give too many sunshine emojis. You know, when I log into the day, well, I can think of worse,
Tara Ladd:sign emojis are pretty, pretty valid. You know, what I also really loved about it is the fact that you wrote down how everyone preferred to be like, how everyone prefer to communicate. Yeah, and I think that that was that was stand out to me because like, I hate I hate phone calls. Like I hate talking on the phone, and that's fine, but I just find that everything is much easier in writing. I can access it at a time that I'm available. I don't feel Like my time has been wasted. So I found that really good. So I know that someone is like tight like, and obviously, you would know with ADHD, your brains fried like so every time someone was ringing you up, this probably happens to a normal person, you've resetting what you're doing every time someone calls and you're like, you're breaking like productivity, like I just need to, I just need to get it done. And then I will call you back. So when someone says, Hey, let's chat, I'm like you need to book it in at least I can mentally prepare for that phone call to happen. So that's just my way of working. So I found I found that that was really great. It's not that I want to talk to you on the phone, I literally won't answer any phone. It's just that I need to talk to you at a time. That's suitable in order for me to progress. Right. So
Cherie Clonan:yeah, I love and that's why that about me book is so important, because some of my employees are like, I have anxiety. So if you want to talk to me, give me a Slack message first and just say, it's all good, or, um, and I think that's, that's, you know, definitely really important. So my thing is that, you know, talk to me that just give me 48 hours to respond, because I'm not going to respond in the moment. I'm not an hour culture girl. And I've, I do have that slow processing speed, which I don't think as a negative autistic trait, I actually think it's strengths based, you know, to not knee jerk react to shit all the time is one of my biggest leadership strengths, you know, and I can sit in something for 48 ish hours and just go, Yeah, I've got it. This is this is the solution. Yeah. So yeah, I love those about me books, because there's not many ways that I don't open up someone's particular page and go, Yeah, right. Okay, they want slack, or they want a zoom call, or they, you know, just whatever their preference is communication styles, ways of receiving, you know, feedback, and so on. It's all in there. And I think it's really important and individualistic and just celebrate each individual for the really rad human that they are, and the many reasons why we employed them in the first place. 100%,
Tara Ladd:I think I just thought was great. And the last question was aimed at you, but I think you've already answered it. So it's, you know, what do you think that you do that causes such a positive influence on people, but you know, I'm going to give you my opinion, what I think that you do, because I think that it's important for other people to hear it from a different perspective. And again, it's, she leaves, and she does, and she puts what she's going to do to action. And I think people are inspired by what she can do being a small business, and they've watched her business grow from her actions. And I think that that is really motivating for other small businesses. And they will, I can guarantee you, if I'm talking about Sheree, for whatever reasons, most people know who she is from a small business scale, you know, in a social media world, because she's got such a positive influence there. And I think she's almost become a voice of reason, she's highly relatable, she puts, she puts everything she does at the forefront, you her neck, the brand narrative is just so strong. And I think, you know, and she's not not afraid to show vulnerability, and this is going to be a whole episode that I'm going to speak about the vulnerability is so key to building those authentic relationships with not only you know, clients or your audience, but within your team. And when they know that you come from a place of just being human, as she said multiple times, I think that you build such a deeper relationship with someone and you know, each other beyond a surface value. And I think that what Sheree brings to the table is showing other people that you don't have to be this big loaded, you know, you know, CEO of a business to create real change. And, you know, if you just go to her page, and you read things that she writes, that's, it's, you know, her experience, and I'm sure she's spoken about it for growing up in foster homes and having a single dad and, you know, both her children being on, you know, what does Frankie F, ADHD and yeah, so she's another one like us, you know, and just, like, just all of us being in that pit, and just really shining my light on max. And he's just outstanding ability. And I do it across all of your platforms, both professionally and personally. And I think that is just authenticity at play. And people like you said, people can read through bullshit. And this is where I from coming from my branding background, you know, if you're going to get on and speak about your brand values and what you do as a business, then you need to bloody show up for those values and not just say that you do something and not and you know, and do the complete opposite. I think everyone and how many times have you read on a job description where a family orientated business yet they do everything? That's the stock opposite of being a family orientated business, you know, so that's what I that's what I think about you, mate. I think you're great. Yeah. All right. So I think we've spoken for a pretty long time because I know that I expected that that would happen.
Unknown:You and I on like, here we go.
Tara Ladd:Let's just put this as part one of many. But yeah, I just wanted to say a huge thank you for coming on because I think your voice is something that needs to be amplified and everyone needs to know about you.
Cherie Clonan:Thank you. I think the same about you. So it was honestly just like, yeah, honour and a privilege to be here today. So thanks so much for having
Tara Ladd:me. Amazing. Yeah. For anyone that doesn't know your handles, why don't you shout out all of the things where they're like, well, where they can find you first start.
Cherie Clonan:Oh, okay. Well, typical autistic introvert. My favourite platform is LinkedIn. Connect with me on LinkedIn by looking up Sheree Klein, and I don't know that there's another one. If you're struggling, my tagline is proudly autistic creative director. So I'm mostly hanging out on LinkedIn. And we also have a company page on LinkedIn as well. You find us on Instagram, the digital picnic and Facebook, the digital payment we do have a tick tock platform but that stains baby I have nothing to do with the success on that platform there. I'm just like, you do very Exactly. So that's in a nutshell and yeah, always down for connecting with good humans online, so feel free to connect
Tara Ladd:amazing. Thanks so much, Cherie. Alright guys, we'll talk to you next week. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to head over and rate and review. It helps to let other women know we're around. Also, don't forget to follow along on my Instagram page at I am Tara Ladd or hit up WWW dot Tara ladd.com